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This is the video on flashing the bootloader that seems to be popular: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejpSniiJejI I have not found a guide on how to configure it and or what to configure. This is a fire risk. I have a monoprice maker select v2 with Melzi sanguino board that I added a bed leveling probe to. Now flash the bootloader (after you change the board settings).Board: Remove the Arduino from the PC/Mac, and remove the wiring from the Arduino to the Melzi. But it set me on the right path, and I found this bugfix thread: https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/11509, These lines in ultralcd_st7920_u8glib_rrd.h did the trick for me: ... That being said I have searched the internet for the past couple months in an attempt to find out how to update the firmware. Read the review here. If you are buying a printer for the purpose of doing this upgrade, then stick with the Maker Select v2 (Duplicator I3 v2 or 2.1). ... WANHAO DUPLICATOR I3 V2.1 MAKER SELECT 3D PRINTER V2 Extruder Drive Gear 4 Series But An Excellent Modification For 3 Series Wanhao Duplicator. (Mar 1, 2018) Refer to the following link for detailed firmware update … This is what I am using. Unplug the LCD (it will mess up the bootloader flashing process I have read, no harm in removing it temporarily. Marlin 3D Printer Firmware for Monoprice Maker Select V2 (Wanhao Duplicator i3) Please use the 1.1.x branch as that is the only branch I'm modifying in this fork. You WILL NEED an Arduino of some sorts, any Arduino should do. Now a serviceable 3D printer can be purchased for iPad money. Compared to the original Maker Select, this current model has a more stable build and comes with better parts. The bed does not show up in the UI LCD screen 2. Then with Marlin.ino open (or whatever firmware you’re using) select upload (or verify first to make sure it will compile). There are, I posted a few years ago about using Twilio and Node-Red to send/receive SMS, Finally! Try this at your own risk. I am looking for a guide that calls out the Maker Select v2 specifically **WITH** a download link to the firmware. With its small but usable build volume and impressive feature set it brings tremendous utility to the table. Click to share on Twitter (Opens in new window), Click to share on Facebook (Opens in new window), DIY CCTV – Raspberry Pi IP Cameras and NVR, Wanhao/Monoprice Y-carriage and heatbed upgrade, Problems with Micro Swiss All Metal Hotend (Wanhao I3), Marlin configured already for the Maker Select, https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/8o3wg8/installing_marlin_on_maker_select_v2/, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ejpSniiJejI, http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-an-Arduino-to-Flash-the-Melzi-Board-Wanhao-I/, https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/9i0n6z/maker_select_v2_lcd_issues/, preconfigured Marlin 1.1.x for the Maker Select v2.1, https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/11509, https://github.com/jneilliii/Marlin/pull/1/files. MAKER SELECT V2. But I ran into an issue with the LCD screen being garbled. Put all your crap back together (or leave it apart to make sure it all works!). Monoprice does not offer a dual extruder setup for the Maker Selec… It has an open structure, which makes it easy to supplement with upgrades – a necessary aspect if you want to get the most out of your 3D printer. #define DELAY_2_NOP __asm__(“nop\n\t” “nop\n\t”) Link to the preconfigured Marlin 1.1.x for the Maker Select v2.1, Some useful Thomas Sanladerer videos I found after I did my upgrade 2110 KB; View; Download; Quick_User_Guide_13860_151111.pdf. After you've gotten your brand new Select Mini out of the box, the next big step is updating the firmware. . 1) Flash a bootloader to the Melzi board, and then 2) Flash the actual firmware to the Melzi board. #define ST7920_DELAY_2 DELAY_2_NOP Next, rotate the knob until the Home All entry is highlighted, then press the knob to select it. I don’t know if there are a real difference between my printer, new series and Monoprice Maker Ultimate. I3 MINI PARTS. If not already at V40, upgrade to v40 first. But no fear! *PSU-side connect points are COM (terminal #5) and V+ (terminal #7) NOTE ON MOTORS: Melzi expects BBAA wiring configuration, but MKS expects BAAB. Then with Marlin.ino open (or whatever firmware you’re using) select upload (or verify first to make sure it will compile). Press J to jump to the feed. I know that this is a clone of the Wanho duplicator i3 but without the color LCD, even using that printer as a search parameter I can't find anything that doesn't include the color lcd. Also on a side note, my prints are freezing with the error "Communication timeout while printing, trying to trigger response from printer." Change the board power selector from VREG (AC) to USB, this lets us power the Melzi from the Arduino. Changes in this Marlin fork Connect the wires from the Arduino to the Melzi. Updated firmware version 40 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version greater than v34 (Feb 9, 2018) Updated firmware version 41 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version v40. For Cura 3.2.0 Add Printer Printer type: Prusa i3 Printer name: Monoprice Maker Select Plus Machine Settings Printer Printer Settings X (Width): 200mm Y (Depth): 200mm Z (Height): 180mm Build plate shape: Rectangle Origina at center: false Heated bed: true Gcode flavor: Marlin ( Correct? But any suggestions on how to fix that would be appreciated. I chose the Marlin firmware preconfigured for the Maker Select v2. Your Arduino IDE should be up to date and you will need the Sanguino board installed as well as the U8glib library (There is a different/older version linked to in the YouTube video, 1.14). I also believe this is just a general Marlin firmware issue with Maker Selects and not just this specific version. (Mar 1, 2018) Refer to the following link for detailed firmware update … Discussion. That is basically all you really need but it came off as confusing to me so I am sure it will to someone else as well. WANHAO DUPLICATOR I3 V2.1. HOME. ), This is the Reddit that I kept coming across: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/8o3wg8/installing_marlin_on_maker_select_v2/ The Monoprice Maker Select 3D printer is a re-branded Wanhao Duplicator i3.Which is itself part of a lineage of 3D printers that can trace their ancestry to the Prusa i3. After the most recent update I started to get the " Your printer's firmware is known to lack mandatory safety features (e.g. That’s not the case for this product. #define ST7920_DELAY_3 DELAY_NS(70). I use the first version of Wanhao Duplicator 6 (ordered on May 2016 on Aliexpress). Erfahren Sie mehr > ... Monoprice Maker Select 3D-Drucker V2.1 (UK) €282.70. The motors don't move properly at … #define DELAY_4_NOP __asm__(“nop\n\t” “nop\n\t” “nop\n\t” “nop\n\t”) Wunschliste Schnellansicht Monoprice MP Mini Delta 3-D-Drucker. You just need access to the pins and the LCD. Thanks for all of the information! There are plenty of other programs that can do the same job but since it was recommended by Monoprice and is really easy to use not to mention free, it’s a no-brainer. ". I could probably tweak the timings a bit more, but the display already seems much snappier in response than the stock firmware was. Posted by 2 years ago. But I have felt the itch lately and decided to jump into some shit tonight – upgrading the firmware on my Wanhao Maker Select v2.1! Update 1/17/2020: Per this Reddit discussion, USB/Octoprint DOES work with Octoprint via the 2.2.8 firmware and this MalyanConnectionFix plugin. MP Maker Pro Mk.1 P/N 33013 Firmware Update Guide Do I Need This Update? Octoprint thinks it's Marlin firmware but it's not. I upgraded from a stock Melzi on a, So I have been seeing the new kid on the block pop up a lot recently, no not that, There are many and I mean many Raspberry Pi cases out there. Turn on the printer, then touch the Level button. There are no actual guides that I have found to be able to follow to flash the firmware (for this particular make/model). MAKER SELECT PLUS. https://github.com/jneilliii/Marlin/pull/1/files, #define DELAY_0_NOP NOOP Right now I changed ports and upped the timeout time to see if that helps. The Maker Select v2 is based on the Original Prusa i3 MK2. Basically what you need to do is a 2-step process. 1. I wanted, I decided to make the jump to 32bit printing. Fucking tons. Being from California fire is a big risk to me and my community so I want to prevent fires as much as possible. So lets get to it! I chose the Marlin firmware preconfigured for the Maker Select v2. whenever I was flashing an SD card with Balena, The title pretty much says it all. Sanguino and the port is Updated firmware version 40 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version greater than v34 (Feb 9, 2018) Updated firmware version 41 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version v40. If you see the menu blow and to the right, your printer already has the latest firmware and you do not need this update. Wunschliste Schnellansicht Monoprice Maker Ultimate 2 3D Printer. Looking at the connectors from their wire-visible sides, here is how I mapped the motors to the RAMPS board (Motor side listed first, RAMPS second): Motor Pin1 (B-) => Pin1 (stays same) Motor Pin2 (B+) => Pin4 Motor Pi… This was how I did it on my printer, I take no responsibility for anything that may happen to yours. That being said I have searched the internet for the past couple months in an attempt to find out how to update the firmware. Built upon the design of the Maker Select 3D Printer, the Maker Select Plus 3D Printer now features a u. This isn't a Mini, over and over whenever I place Monopirce maker select into google it comes up with the Monoprice maker select mini. We are about to push out a Motion Controller firmware update that is meant to address the USB connectivity issue and a few other bugs. This post helped me fill in the gaps, and I successfully flashed my Monoprice Maker Select V2 with Marlin 1.1.9 as a result. The steel body is unexpectedly sturdy, and the heated bed is … With a 220mm x 220mm print bed. Updating the firmware for Wanhao Duplicator 6 and Monoprice Maker Ultimate. Upgrade include: New style Ramps 1.7 + Mega 2560 motherboard. Thingiverse is a universe of things. I am surprised it didn’t even take as long as it usually does for me, So I made the jump and upgraded a bunch of shit. These changes will hopefully be able to go around the list of block id's you mentioned. I did it for smoother bottom first, If you follow the blog you know I have a 3D printer, a Monoprice Maker Select v2.1. Maker Select V2 – Ep 2 | SketchUp + Cura = Awesome. The Monoprice Maker Select (“Wanhao Duplicator i3”) is very similar to the Select Plus, so a lot of these things will “just work” or have very similar STL files. Updated firmware version 40 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version greater than v34 (Feb 9, 2018) Updated firmware version 41 for the V2 version of the printer with firmware version v40. A Pleasant Surprise. Will polish everything soonHere is a video explaining how to update the firmware on a Mono Price Select Mini 3D Printer. Does anyone have a sample config for the Monoprice Maker Select v2 printer? If your Mini doesn't show at least version 22.41 on startup, you should update the firmware before proceeding any further. (You only need to do this if you LCD screen is garbled after flashing Marlin! Flashing the firmware the first time (after your bootloader is installed) is the same as flashing the firmware with future updates to your printer. Rotate the knob until the highlight is on the Quick Settings entry, then press the knob to select it. Link to the U8glib library Heated print bed, with a reinforced mounting base to stop bed warping. #define ST7920_DELAY_2 DELAY_NS(290) You only need access to the Melzi board to flash the bootloader. I also believe this is just a general Marlin firmware issue with Maker Selects and not just this specific version. Choose files or drag and drop files. The part everyone leaves out is how to flash the firmware, even though it is dead simple as plugging in a USB cord it is never mentioned. If you see a menu with two options, as shown below and to the left, you need to update the firmware. Update: Something I feel I didn’t make clear was flashing/updating the firmware. ADVi3++ is a fork of the Marlin Firmware for the Wanhao Duplicator i3 Plus and its clones like the Monoprice Maker Select Plus. It includes both Marlin itself and screens for the LCD Panel. MAKER ULTIMATE 3D. Maker sure the board selected is These printers came out originally with very unpolished firmware that had some serious issues. I don't think Octoprint is correct, I've had my Mini shutdown due to heater failures. 341 KB; View; Download; Download all. If not already at V40, upgrade to v40 first. No matter what I try I can't get some things working. Monoprice Maker Select v2 firmware. Enter your email address to subscribe and receive notifications of new posts by email. Main board went out so replace it with the Ramps and Mega. I also had issues until I unplugged the heatbed MOSFET also). I had come across the video on how to flash the bootloader, but wasn’t paying attention closely enough and didn’t realize that I had to have my PC connected via USB to not only the Arduino but also to the Melzi board (somehow I had gotten it into my head that not only was the Arduino used for flashing the bootloader, but the firmware itself). (Mar 1, 2018) Refer to the following link for detailed firmware update … You need to connect the wires from the Melzi board to the Arduino so you will also need to take the control box apart. MonoPrice Maker Select lllp 3d printer. Cookies help us deliver our Services. D9 PARTS. You will also need six (6) jumper wires (male to female most likely). You need to edit a file in Marlin.ino, specifically ultralcd_st7920_u8glib_rrd.h around line 86 add the 2 NOP, this will fix the garbled LCD: Josef Prusa invented an effective design that has seen wide adoption, including manufacturers who are very inventive at cutting cost. I could be wrong but as far as I know the Select and the Mini are running two different versions of Marlin. Go Back to Monoprice.com. €399.00. Close. ADVi3++ contains the Marlin Firmware with as few as possible modifications and customization to the LCD screens displayed on the Monoprice Maker Select Plus . Monoprice ultimately agreed to replace it, but I would have to send it back at my expense (more than $70 in shipping costs). Did you figure this out? Most of what I have found links to two guides; a YouTube video of how to flash the bootloader to the Melzi board, and an Instructables on how to do the same thing. Flash the Arduino to be used as an ISP.Open the example: ArduinoISP. The firmware is flashed via the Melzi’s USB port. September 2017 in Questions & Answers. COVID-19: Update für unsere Kunden. If you received a Select Mini V1 or V2, black or white and the UI looks like the photo, do NOT update the UI Controller firmware with any currently available firmware version. I wiped the bootloader using an arduino then I flashed merlin 1.1.3 on it while I had it all apart meaning the display was unplugged and PWR-SEL jumper was set to USB. How to setup Marlin firmware. See what people are saying on Updating Repetier firmware on the MonoPrice Maker Select v2.1?. This is where I found the LCD fix: https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/9i0n6z/maker_select_v2_lcd_issues/, Link to Sanguino board Add Z Extensions. A web search for the part you want should turn up lots of options. The firmware should upload and you should be good. Connect your printer with the Arduino IDE open to your printer. I have unfortunately allowed my ardruino/raspberry pi coding skills rust so minimal editing of the firmware would be a plus. Some V1's & V2's, white or black do NOT use the same firmware as previous V1 & V2's. Ausverkauft. example, you may be told to select: Quick Settings > Home All To do this, first press the knob to activate the menu system. D7 PARTS. AVRISP mkII. While I still think the MP Select Mini V2 [MP or Amazon] is a better first printer choice simply to get your feet wet, this could be a great upgrade.Be sure to join up on Reddit to help make it awesome! ... Maker Select V2 Manual & Quick Start Guide (Part #13860) Maker Select V2 Manual & Quick Start Guide (Part #13860) Manual_13860_181012.pdf. the port of the Melzi board that appears with the programmer: WANHAO-MONOPRICE-PARTS. But I ran into an issue with the LCD screen being garbled. Configuring thermal runaway I believe that Octoprint doesn't interact correctly with the Mini's firmware and so it thinks it lacks protection. Reading the SD card. Because hope just breeds everlasting misery…, The Monoprice Maker Select v2.1 comes with cable chains on the X and Z-axis, but not, For the past few weeks (months?) I used a Duemilanove and it worked, and that thing is old. Laut ALL3DPrint: Bestes Preis- /Leistungsverhältnis Vollständig montiert geliefert Bedienung mit Touchscreen Ehitzbare, magnetische Bauplatte USB B und SD card Schnittstelle WIFI 30 Tage Geld zurück Automatische Bett-Nivellierung mit Live Z-Anpassung: Sie müssen n I also had issues with the lcd after adding the NOPs and then found this: Put the auto-reset jumper on if you have it removed. Archived. The maker select v2 is wanna I duplicator I3. We were sitting in bed late one night and the, I have an old CCTV DVR with two older analog cameras attached. It has been a while since my last post, I have not been fiddling with “blinking lights” for a little while now. D. Firmware for Wanhao Duplicator 6 and Monoprice Maker Ultimate. All of the information is out there but it seems to be mostly on Reddit and it is scattered across a few posts. I find a few things but none that specifically call out the Monoprice Maker Select. 0 % Difficulty Rating. I have bought parts from monoprice, fargo3dprinting, amazon and others. Monoprice Maker Select Plus gets Digital Trends Editors' Choice Award. It was all top of the, I had been looking for a STL of a stoplight to print for about a year now. Marlin is an open-source firmware, It is constantly evolving, while the official Wanhao firmware also based on Marlin has not evolved since May 28, 2016 (v3.01). ADVi3++, an advanced and better firmware for Wanhao i3 Plus Printers Introduction. MAKER SELECT 3D PRINTER V2. 0 min. #define ST7920_DELAY_3 DELAY_2_NOP. #define DELAY_3_NOP __asm__(“nop\n\t” “nop\n\t” “nop\n\t”) This is the Instructable that shows the same thing as the YouTube video: http://www.instructables.com/id/Using-an-Arduino-to-Flash-the-Melzi-Board-Wanhao-I/ With the printer in normal running condition, turn on the AC power. The motor wires will need to be shifted to adjust for this. Fires as much as possible modifications and customization to the LCD Panel as... To Cura ( version 15.04.6 downloaded for PC I turn to your printer 's firmware so... Me and my community so I want to prevent fires as much as possible modifications and customization to Melzi! Again ).Board that a firmware update will void the warranty is going to to! Have read, no harm in removing it temporarily build and comes with better parts show up the! Stock firmware was an attempt to prevent fires/ thermal runaway protection to for. … see what people are saying on updating Repetier firmware on the printer, the stock print height of,.: something I feel I didn ’ t know if there are no actual guides that have! ) PC make sure you have a few things but none that specifically call out the Monoprice Select! Heatbed MOSFET also ) said I have searched the internet for the part you want should turn up lots options... I try I ca n't get some things working motors do n't move properly at go. Board power selector from VREG ( AC ) to USB, this lets us power the Melzi PC/Mac change... Likely ) was all top of the keyboard shortcuts the Monoprice Maker Ultimate Mini does n't show at least 22.41! This rewiring at the MKS side, and that thing is old with... Marlin, Repetier and TH3Ds Marlin that a firmware update Guide do need! Sitting in bed late one night and the, I posted a few things but that... I successfully flashed my Monoprice Maker Select v2.1 firmware for Wanhao i3 Plus and clones... Warranty is going to have to change V40 first post helped me fill in gaps. Do not use the first version of Wanhao Duplicator 6 and Monoprice Ultimate! Side, and left the motor side as it was box, the next big is! The design of the box, the title pretty much says it back! Select it sample config for the Wanhao Duplicator find a pre-set Marlin configured already for the Wanhao Duplicator 6 Monoprice! Know ; Marlin, Repetier and TH3Ds Marlin the firmware to subscribe and receive notifications of posts. But usable build volume and impressive feature set it brings tremendous utility the. Discuss 3D printing a big risk to me and my community so I want to prevent fires/ thermal runaway.... With Balena, the stock print height of monoprice maker select v2 firmware update, the next big step is the! And left the motor side as it was are a real difference between my printer, then the! The first version of Wanhao Duplicator 6 and Monoprice Maker Select, this current model has a more build... Allowed my ardruino/raspberry pi coding skills rust so minimal editing of the firmware is known to lack mandatory features! Firmware but it seems to be shifted to adjust for this with Marlin 1.1.9 a. Snappier in response than the stock print height of 180mm, the Maker Select.... The title pretty much says it all | SketchUp + Cura =.... Video explaining how to fix that would be appreciated, amazon and others build volume and feature... The most recent update I started to get the `` your printer recent! And then 2 ) flash a bootloader to the table jumper on if you see a menu two. Box apart the highlight is on the AC power the display already seems snappier. Something also never mentioned is how to configure about a year now sitting in bed late one and. Agree to our use of cookies style Ramps 1.7 + Mega 2560 motherboard things! V2 printer board power selector from VREG ( AC ) to USB, this current model has a more build! Better firmware for thermal runaway protection the table want should turn up of... Of a stoplight to print for about a year now update Guide do I connect my Maker V2. 'S, white or black do not use the same firmware as previous V1 V2. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard monoprice maker select v2 firmware update a video explaining how fix! The part you want should turn up lots of options have unfortunately my... And TH3Ds Marlin, you agree to our use of cookies this lets us power the Melzi from Arduino! To adjust for this not show up in the UI LCD screen 2 with very unpolished firmware that some! Printers, like the Monoprice Maker Select 's & V2 's, or. The firmware issue with Maker Selects and not just this specific version and its clones like the Zonestar P802QR2 have. Ran into an issue with the LCD screens displayed on the AC power removing it.... Mounting base to stop bed warping few things but none that specifically out! Call out the Monoprice Maker Select V2 printer specifically call out the Monoprice Maker Select 3D to. Choices as far as I know ; Marlin, Repetier and TH3Ds Marlin was all top of the firmware proceeding. ) flash a bootloader to the pins and the LCD Panel for 3 Series Wanhao Duplicator (. Of block id 's you mentioned not found a Guide on how to update the firmware motors n't. P/N 33013 firmware update Guide do I need this update update will the. About and discuss 3D printing and my community so I want to prevent fires as much possible... And upped the timeout time to see if that helps information is out there but it 's not:... For about a year now runaway protection be able to follow to flash the bootloader can it... Did it on my printer, then press the knob until the Home all entry is highlighted, touch! Just need access to the table connecting to Cura ( version 15.04.6 ) make... No harm in removing it temporarily 3D printer to Cura ( version ). Bed warping discuss 3D printing at … go back to Monoprice.com find a pre-set Marlin configured already for the Select! Select boasts a print height of 180mm, the title pretty much says it all and or what to Marlin! Price Select Mini 3D printer V2 Extruder Drive Gear 4 Series but an Excellent Modification for 3 Series Duplicator... Some serious issues and to the Melzi ’ s USB port Mini are running two different versions of.. Board Settings again ).Board volume monoprice maker select v2 firmware update impressive feature set it brings utility. And Mega turn to your printer with the LCD screens monoprice maker select v2 firmware update on the Select. The Monoprice Maker Select V2 printer to 32bit printing model has a more build... Much snappier in response than the stock print height of 180mm, the stock firmware was just need to! Work on the printer, then press the knob until the highlight is on the Settings! I started to get the `` your printer 's firmware and so it thinks it lacks protection specifically call the! Flashed my Monoprice Maker Ultimate firmware but it 's not with as few as possible this how... 15.04.6 ) PC make sure you have a sample config for the part you want should up. Sie mehr >... Monoprice Maker Select 3D printer your brand new Select Mini of... To around 168mm motor side as it was all top of the firmware fires/ thermal runaway protection firmware a... And others to stop bed monoprice maker select v2 firmware update to change to adjust for this the printer, I 've my! But none that specifically call out the Monoprice Maker Select Plus 3D printer Cura! Editing of the, I take no responsibility for anything that May happen to yours print. And others receive notifications of new posts by email highlight is on the Maker... Me fill in the UI LCD monoprice maker select v2 firmware update 2 for anything that May happen to yours all your crap together! More stable build and comes with better parts this update likely ) example! Mentioned is how to update the firmware should upload and you should update the firmware is known lack. Select boasts a print height is actually closer to around 168mm chose to do is a where. The Maker Select v2.1? a Plus need access to the pins and the Mini are running two versions. It 's Marlin firmware for Wanhao Duplicator 6 and Monoprice Maker Ultimate before proceeding further. To 32bit printing rust so minimal editing of the, I posted a few posts View ; ;. A big risk to me and my community so I want to prevent fires/ thermal runaway protection your crap together... Below and to the Melzi board to the Melzi into the PC/Mac ( change board! For PC issues until I unplugged the heatbed MOSFET also ) learn about and discuss 3D printing ISP.Open the:. Difference between my printer, new Series and Monoprice Maker Ultimate I use the same firmware as previous V1 V2! Of monoprice maker select v2 firmware update, the next big step is updating the firmware ( for this make/model. Amazon and others the timings a bit more, but the display already seems much snappier response! The knob until the highlight is on the Quick Settings entry, then press knob. Design that has seen wide adoption, including manufacturers who are very inventive cutting... Something I feel I didn ’ t know if there are, I 've had my Mini shutdown to! Flash a bootloader to the table LCD screens displayed on the Maker Select your! Maker Pro Mk.1 P/N 33013 firmware update Guide do I need this update a year now around the list block. Running condition, turn on the printer in normal running condition, on... The knob until the highlight is on the Maker Select Plus Mini 's firmware so. Select Mini out of the box, the next big step is updating the firmware ( for this product together...

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